May we start by asking what you will miss about the Senate of which you were a member for four years?
It has to do with the impact one could have made on the citizens of this country, particularly working with others to arrange oneself to find a way of curing the ills of the society. At the same time, more importantly, the crucial aspect of rallying round to eradicate the ills of the society is one of the things I’m going to miss. Apart from that, one had colleagues in the Senate, the experiences you gain are enormous because you meet with people and you belong to some kind of profession.
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Senator Bajomo |
The picture you painted of senators as a group of people with a mandate to eradicate the ills of the society is different from the widely held view of senators as a group of self-seeking individuals.
I think the National Assembly particularly the Senate is doing its job. People are entitled to their own opinion. At the same time, I think that the activities of the Senate are given to them in trust. If you should x-ray all senators as to how they lived up to expectation in serving their constituents, materially speaking, some of them may have left the Senate far worse than they came.
I think the National Assembly particularly the Senate is doing its job. People are entitled to their own opinion. At the same time, I think that the activities of the Senate are given to them in trust. If you should x-ray all senators as to how they lived up to expectation in serving their constituents, materially speaking, some of them may have left the Senate far worse than they came.
Now that you are out of the Senate, what is life outside like?
Being in politics really is a political game. But it should not be politics forever without having something to fall back on. Whether you are able to get back or not does not diminish your stature, your posture and your determination to move on. And as you can see, I am moving on as I talk to you here in my office.
Being in politics really is a political game. But it should not be politics forever without having something to fall back on. Whether you are able to get back or not does not diminish your stature, your posture and your determination to move on. And as you can see, I am moving on as I talk to you here in my office.
What are the things you would have loved to do differently if you had had another chance of going back to the Senate?
I would have loved to chair a Senate committee. It doesn’t really matter to me which committee. What matters is your ability to research. In some countries, people are made ministers of health without necessarily being medical practitioners or pharmacists. But they still manage the portfolio as if they have all the knowledge. In chairing a committee, I would have brought my personal diligence to bear on the committee.
You were in the Senate for four years. With the benefit of hindsight, don’t you think that there are areas that require adjustments like in the budgeting process, oversight functions, the way committees are constituted and the way screening exercises are handled?
Consideration of the annual budget of the country is a very important function of the National Assembly that should be done timely to turn the appropriation bill into an Act. I will like to see a situation where the executive will turn in the budget as early as August so that the National Assembly can have all the time in the world to do justice to the budget.
If it is brought in December, every ministry will have to defend its proposal and there is no way that budget can be passed before the end of the year. So timely presentation of the budget is very important.
If it is brought in December, every ministry will have to defend its proposal and there is no way that budget can be passed before the end of the year. So timely presentation of the budget is very important.
What about budget padding which has been a source of friction where the executive arm that would submit a certain amount as the annual budget proposal only for the legislature to come up with a bloated figure?
Whether you add or you subtract, it is all in the interest of the people because we believe that certain areas of the budget should be adjusted. On the revenue side, oil is the largest revenue earner for the country. We predicate our revenue on a benchmark and we do our home work before we arrive at a benchmark that will be justifiable. There was never a time throughout my life in the Senate that the National Assembly was wrong.
Using a benchmark that is lower than expectation, you create a situation for deficit budget. That means that you have to borrow to finance the deficit in the budget. The Senate has always set a justifiable budget based on the revenue profiles when they are provided. In the course of questioning, the real issues are brought out to assist the Senate to arrive at a justifiable budget for the country.
It is generally believed that the padding is for selfish purposes?
I challenge anybody in the executive, in any ministry or any institution to prove that any addition to the budget is meant for the benefit of any senator. The allegation is alien to me.
That is why the budget office claimed that the National Assembly increased the 2011 budget for political reasons.
I challenge anybody in the executive, in any ministry or any institution to prove that any addition to the budget is meant for the benefit of any senator. The allegation is alien to me.
That is why the budget office claimed that the National Assembly increased the 2011 budget for political reasons.
How do you form a government without politics? What political reasons did he state? Assuming there is a road from my constituency that leads to Sokoto that had been abandoned and left to deteriorate for several years. Assuming it’s an economic road and no meaningful allocation has been made over the years. As a senator, nothing stops me from fighting for an allocation for it. If that is the kind of political reason they are talking about, so be it.
There must be cooperation and coordination between the executive and the legislature. It is not a one man show. It cannot be a one section show. What we need to do is to improve on the level of cooperation and coordination between the executive and the National Assembly.
But if the executive said it can only spend N10 on a particular road, why should the National Assembly say it should be N20? That may be the cause of the friction.
We will not increase the budget unless we are sure that we can find a way to provide revenue for it. Also we ensure that the revenue profiles have been streamlined.
The executive has insisted that budget padding over the years has made the annual budget unimplementable.
That is not true, if and where we get the revenue profiles right.
What is your assessment of the level of implementation of the budget?
Not efficient enough. We don’t have to wait till December to submit the budget for consideration. What we are talking about is estimate. It doesn’t necessarily have to be exact. But we try as much as possible to work within the benchmark.
Not efficient enough. We don’t have to wait till December to submit the budget for consideration. What we are talking about is estimate. It doesn’t necessarily have to be exact. But we try as much as possible to work within the benchmark.
What is your take on the debate on N18, 000 minimum wage and the insistence by some state governors that they are unable to pay?
There is an urgent need for the governors to re-order their priorities and there will be no difficulty in paying the 18, 000 minimum wage, which is grossly inadequate anyway. The most important thing is to check inflation and bring it to the barest minimum.
There is an urgent need for the governors to re-order their priorities and there will be no difficulty in paying the 18, 000 minimum wage, which is grossly inadequate anyway. The most important thing is to check inflation and bring it to the barest minimum.
The evil that inflation does is to ravage the poor in the society because the rich don’t feel the bite. They have enough to cushion the effects, but the poor are left at the receiving end of economic hardship. This is part of the problem of insecurity and breakdown of intelligence network. The moment some of these economic problems are tackled, insecurity will be brought down to the barest minimum. It’s not about employing brute force. It’s about social, political and economic re-engineering. It is a very simple solution if properly addressed.
You were in the Senate for four years, if you cast your mind back, can you say that the sixth Senate lived up to expectations?
I can stick my neck out and say loudly that the sixth Senate lived up to expectations. The sixth Senate made it possible for the then Vice President to carry out the duties of the President through the Doctrine of Necessity. That alone stabilised the nation.
I can stick my neck out and say loudly that the sixth Senate lived up to expectations. The sixth Senate made it possible for the then Vice President to carry out the duties of the President through the Doctrine of Necessity. That alone stabilised the nation.
Some observers saw the Senate as an institution with the headmaster at the high table and his pupils concurring to whatever the headmaster said.
If you watch the scene at the Senate, I can tell you that at every debate, there are those for and those against. You can say whatever you like and nobody can take you to court for expressing your opinion on any issue on the floor of the Senate. There was never a situation where anybody could gag anybody.
If you watch the scene at the Senate, I can tell you that at every debate, there are those for and those against. You can say whatever you like and nobody can take you to court for expressing your opinion on any issue on the floor of the Senate. There was never a situation where anybody could gag anybody.
On a particular issue, a senator had asked for a division when he felt he did not agree with the conclusion of the Senate President. And it was carried out. The Senate President had been very democratic. He has always allowed people to express their views whenever his eyes catch any person.
How come one did not find the kind of crises that rocked the House of Representatives in the Senate?
Maturity and ability to discern what is possible.
Each time after the Senate session, senators accompany the Senate President to his office. Is there another meeting there? Some say senators go to the office to help themselves to special breed of bananas and apples. What else do they do there?
We go there to exchange views on issues. We even revisit issues that might have been discussed in the chamber. We even talk about what ought to have been done and was not done or was done well but could be improved upon. There is no limit to what we talk about. It is a forum where we exchange views among ourselves. Of course, if there are bananas and apples and people decide to take them, there is no big deal about that.
Maturity and ability to discern what is possible.
Each time after the Senate session, senators accompany the Senate President to his office. Is there another meeting there? Some say senators go to the office to help themselves to special breed of bananas and apples. What else do they do there?
We go there to exchange views on issues. We even revisit issues that might have been discussed in the chamber. We even talk about what ought to have been done and was not done or was done well but could be improved upon. There is no limit to what we talk about. It is a forum where we exchange views among ourselves. Of course, if there are bananas and apples and people decide to take them, there is no big deal about that.
What would you like to be remembered for during your four years in the Senate?
I will like to be remembered for some of the amendment bills that were pushed through the National Assembly.
I will like to be remembered for some of the amendment bills that were pushed through the National Assembly.
How did you see the conduct of the 2011 general elections?
I will give the Independent National Electoral Commission a pass mark. Also the National Assembly that had to go through the electoral laws painstakingly should also get a pat on the back. It was not easy to go through the electoral laws the way the National Assembly did. We created the enabling environment for INEC to operate. But it was also a very costly exercise because most of the things used for the election were done outside this country. Next time, it should be done to create employment opportunities for our teaming youths. They should start from now to prepare for the 2015 elections.
I will give the Independent National Electoral Commission a pass mark. Also the National Assembly that had to go through the electoral laws painstakingly should also get a pat on the back. It was not easy to go through the electoral laws the way the National Assembly did. We created the enabling environment for INEC to operate. But it was also a very costly exercise because most of the things used for the election were done outside this country. Next time, it should be done to create employment opportunities for our teaming youths. They should start from now to prepare for the 2015 elections.
The issue of ranking became a big issue shortly before the re-election of Senator David Mark as President of the Senate. Do you consider ranking necessary?
It has always been there except that it may never have been an issue. It has never been compromised. What was put in the rule book was just re-confirming the tradition of the Senate. In every institution, there are regulations that must be followed. Even in heaven, there is ranking, if not, why do you have angels and archangels?
You didn’t contest the last election, was it out of principle?
I chose not to contest because of the zoning formula. The only way I could have contested was to ignore the zoning formula and go all out because constitutionally, I should not be prevented from contesting. But the zoning formula was such that it affected me negatively. But I should have really loved to re-contest because I have not finished my assignment in the Senate.
It has always been there except that it may never have been an issue. It has never been compromised. What was put in the rule book was just re-confirming the tradition of the Senate. In every institution, there are regulations that must be followed. Even in heaven, there is ranking, if not, why do you have angels and archangels?
You didn’t contest the last election, was it out of principle?
I chose not to contest because of the zoning formula. The only way I could have contested was to ignore the zoning formula and go all out because constitutionally, I should not be prevented from contesting. But the zoning formula was such that it affected me negatively. But I should have really loved to re-contest because I have not finished my assignment in the Senate.
I have done the first phase, for instance, in changing my constituency from Egbado to Yewa pending the amendment to the constitution. The good news is that whatever is not completed will be carried forward. So I will rely on the good will of my colleagues to effect the amendment this time around.
How will you consider the rate of turnover of lawmakers at the National Assembly?
Nigerians have to learn. Everybody wants to have a shot at it. Everybody wants their group to be the one that is going to represent them at the Senate.
How will you consider the rate of turnover of lawmakers at the National Assembly?
Nigerians have to learn. Everybody wants to have a shot at it. Everybody wants their group to be the one that is going to represent them at the Senate.
Any word of advice for the leadership of your party, the PDP in your native Ogun State?
I have advice for the National Working Committee and for the National Executive Committee of the party. If any other state is abandoned, this is the time to treat that state as one that requires special care. Some of the individuals that are in charge today for us to have been able to perform to the level we did is good, but there is serious crisis in my state. The National Working Committee and the National Executive Committee should do something.
I have advice for the National Working Committee and for the National Executive Committee of the party. If any other state is abandoned, this is the time to treat that state as one that requires special care. Some of the individuals that are in charge today for us to have been able to perform to the level we did is good, but there is serious crisis in my state. The National Working Committee and the National Executive Committee should do something.
Maybe you may try to advise the Senate on how to go about screening ministerial nominees?
If the list of nominees is sent to the Senate which did not indicate which ministry a particular nominee will go, it puts the Senate to task as to the level of screening you will do. If portfolio is attached to the nomination, a particular committee of the Senate should be the one to carry out the screening because it is more thorough at that level. The Senate level is also thorough. The committee will now give its recommendation, the Senate chamber will still be allowed to conduct further screening. The final verdict will now be given by the entire Senate in public.
If the list of nominees is sent to the Senate which did not indicate which ministry a particular nominee will go, it puts the Senate to task as to the level of screening you will do. If portfolio is attached to the nomination, a particular committee of the Senate should be the one to carry out the screening because it is more thorough at that level. The Senate level is also thorough. The committee will now give its recommendation, the Senate chamber will still be allowed to conduct further screening. The final verdict will now be given by the entire Senate in public.
But I can also say in favour of not attaching portfolio to nominees that it gives the President a leeway to reshuffle his cabinet whenever he likes. If a nominee is screened on the basis of a portfolio, it means that if he is reshuffled to another ministry, he has to come back for fresh screening. There may not be time for such arrangement.
What about the issue of asking nominees to take a bow and go, especially former lawmakers?
When you work in a system, you benefit from the system. If you are not good as a senator or member of the House of Representatives, you cannot even be nominated in the first instance for a ministerial portfolio.
When you work in a system, you benefit from the system. If you are not good as a senator or member of the House of Representatives, you cannot even be nominated in the first instance for a ministerial portfolio.